August 28, 2005

Dear Ross,

Thanks for your email. Despite the long passage of time I do recall vividly that period of my life.

I first met James Baker at the first Cheap Nasties gig, at the Rivervale Hotel which happens to be the same suburb of Perth where I grew up. That night he and I decided to try and form a group together even though James did say he was already rehearsing with a band, the one you say was later called The Geeks.  James told me at the time that he didn't think you and Lloyd were "stylish" enough, or words to that effect (he was always harping about "style" and about Johnny Thunders in particular - his all-time favourite "stylish" person).  I don't say this to add insult to injury or re-open old wounds but only to set out the circumstances surrounding James' decision to team up with me as I remember them.  James suggested we ask David Cardwell, who was also in The Geeks with him, to play bass in our new band.  James took me to a Geeks rehearsal so that I could observe David Cardwell's ability on bass and see if he was "right" for The Victims (I thought he'd be O.K.).   There were no other ulterior motives involved but as a fan of this "underground" music (underground at that time, anyway) I was very interested to see how "cool" (or not) your band was: we were all of us pretty passionate about (so-called) Punk Rock and were always keen to meet up with any other devotees and I recall meeting you and Lloyd there.  Some of the songs The Victims later performed were definitely played at that rehearsal.¹

James was (and, no doubt, still is) an entertaining and sociable fellow and a great raconteur: he often spoke of grand experiences he'd only recently had seeing (and in some cases, meeting) the Ramones, the Pistols, Damned and many other now-legendary artists playing in London and the U.S. in 1976. His stories sounded far-fetched but they had an undeniable ring of truth about them.  I believed him then about all that and I still do today. I have to say, I was rather impressed at that time by James' larger-than-life personality and when he subsequently insisted to me that he had in fact written all The Geeks material by himself, I believed him about that too. I now realise that was a fantasy (at best). The way he described his songwriting process for those songs was that he would sing to you all the guitar riffs and the melodies that he'd made up and then you would "interpret" that into chords etc.²  When I later came to write songs with James we would do the same thing, 'Disco Junkies' being one I remember well. I don't believe I had heard that song performed by The Geeks because I vividly recall James singing me the song's main riff (which was new to me) at a Victims rehearsal, and then his correcting me when I didn't have it quite right.  How was I to know that the same process hadn't also been the way all the songs were originally written, composed by himself alone as he had always maintained?  I didn't suspect then that he was only teaching me things that had been apparently previously created by you.³ Tone deaf (as you claim) or not, he knew enough to know when it sounded right to him.  I think it would be an interesting exercise today to hear how different my interpretations of "James' songs" were to the way they were actually written by you two together - trying to figure out what notes he was trying to sing in his tuneless way involved a lot of trial and error but it WAS creative in unexpected ways.⁴  Let me state for the record, I have never heard a recording of The Geeks in any form whatsoever, played to me by James or anyone else.⁵ It wouldn't surprise me (now) that James may have had one himself but I never knew about it.  I am pretty musical myself: '(I'm) Flipped Out Over You' is one that I remembered well from that single Geeks rehearsal and it wasn't hard to learn, given that James knew the arrangement and had all the lyrics.  The same goes for 'High School Girls' and 'T.V. Freak' so there probably wasn't much variation from the original Geeks versions of those songs when The Victims performed them, though you now say I changed the melody for 'High School Girls' significantly. 'I'm Looking For You' and 'There Is No Way Out' I'm not so sure about: I seem to recall James having to "coach" me pretty much through the chord structures and riffs until I had them "right". Again, I stress, he always claimed the songs were wholly his own work.

The Victims eventually had quite a large repertoire of original songs.  Besides the many songs that I wrote alone, James and I also collaborated on countless others. The reason I still feel sure today that James' and my other collaborations (that is, other than those ones you claim to have co-written) were actual wholly-new songs and not just James' "re-creations" of past efforts with you (or other people) is that in these songs he didn't sing me any melodies or riffs at all, but would only write lyrics, usually inspired by something that had just happened to us, or inspiration from a late-night movie (and/or drinking session). Of course I now question how the earlier songs he'd "written" for The Geeks were so fully-formed when none of his later efforts were, but at the time it didn't occur me: I just enjoyed having all the extra musical input myself and never gave it a second thought.  You said in your letter that James took "almost all the original Geeks songs with him as well as performing some or all of them at various times" with The Victims - of the nine songs you claim you wrote with him, the Victims played seven (recording four of them).  I have never heard of 'I Wanna Be Slick And Pick Up Chicks Like You' nor 'I Like Iggy Pop' and The Victims never played them.  'I'm In London' rings a bell with me as the title of a song that wasn't "working" and I recollect James rewriting the lyrics to become 'Teenage Dreamer'.  You mention in your letter that your contribution to this song was finally recognised when you were credited as a co-writer with James on the Scientist's first album, thus re-inforcing (sic) your claim of sole authorship, with James, of the nine songs that were in the Geeks repertoire, yet you somehow failed to mention that the credits from the same album list 'I'm Looking For You' as having been written jointly by James, you, me and Kim. What's the truth, Ross? Does the Scientists album support your story or mine?⁶  From the evidence of The Scientists album, James' story at that moment appears to have been that 'Teenage Dreamer' was written by you two together but that 'I'm Looking For You' was his own song and that each of the other co-writers received their credit for helping to "midwife" his song into a chord and melodic structure. Whatever songwriting credits may or may not have appeared on the so-called 'Pink Album' by The Scientists all those years ago (which was several years after The Victims broke up), it wasn't decided by me anyway.  However, it is rather disingenuous of you to only mention the evidence that supports your claims and disregard any other inconvenient facts.⁷ Kim Salmon would have also had to rely on James' "faulty" recollections as to how the songs were created (stories that apparently changed over time), just as I had done when James and I worked together in The Victims.⁸ The reason James did or did not give you credit for these songs at various times are best known only to himself and I suggest that's where you look to resolve those issues. As for myself, I'm happy to not be associated as writer of any of those nine songs, good, bad or indifferent as they may be, and regardless of any actual contributions I may or may not have made.

As you know, at that time there was precious little money involved in any of this and we all knew next to nothing about copyright and royalties then.  The Victims only pressed a thousand copies of the 'Television Addict' single, which of course is a "bona fide" Faulkner/Baker song, and the song on which the band's reputation largely rests. All the proceeds of the sales of that went towards paying back the generous Victims fan who funded the recording and manufacture of the disc. That single also features '(I'm) Flipped Out Over You' on the B-side, a truly great song and probably the best one that you and James wrote together (I believe).  When THAT song was recently re-issued on the recent compilation 'Tales From The Australian Underground' it was me (and not James) who insisted on correcting the composer information to put your name instead of mine on the label copy.  I admit I have yet to inform APRA of that change (slackness on my part, not malice) but will happily do so for this and all the other songs I've mentioned where it's appropriate. The Victims E.P., which features 'T.V. Freak', 'High School Girls' and 'Disco Junkies' (and two other original Victims songs) only numbered 500 copies (and it took a long time to sell even close to that many) and that same generous fan never recovered his investment.  Apart from the previously-mentioned 'Tales From The Australian Underground' set, I have never authorised any re-issues of Victims material, save for a Missing Link Records compilation that came out some time in the late '70s/early '80s, which included 'Television Addict' (that album also featuring a track by Norman Gunston, amongst others) and then very recently, the 'Do The Pop' compilation ('Television Addict' again) on Shock.  More specifically, I played no part in releasing the 'All Loud On The Western Front' Victims compilation mini-album on Timberyard Records neither in it's original vinyl form nor, more recently, on CD.  I was unable to stop it then, and now, without incurring great expense and aggravation to myself but I remain very angry about it. Any credits and/or royalties you did or didn't receive for the songs on those records was (and still is) beyond my control: they were released entirely without my consent.  Recently David Cardwell has even contacted me chasing royalties he claims he hasn't received for those same records.  He told my manager that James' latest claim is that I arranged the deal with Shock (in the case of the recent CD) and have been collecting the money. This is highly fanciful (to put it mildly): the first time I even heard about the '...Western Front' CD release was when Dave Laing (from Shock, who only distribute Timberyard) told me in a 'phone conversation that it was about to come out.  This came as a complete (unpleasant) surprise to me.  I had actually been in contact with James off and on for over a year to discuss the idea of finally getting a definitive "official" Victims compilation out ourselves.  The very reason I called Dave Laing was to ascertain if he would be interested in releasing such an album (ask Dave Laing about this yourself).  That album will now never see the light of day since James chose to work with Timberyard again.  James and Timberyard will no doubt have their own view of these matters but from my point of view the 'All Loud On The Western Front' mini-album(s) represents a gross abuse of me and my work.  I received one modest payment some years after the first vinyl release without any accompanying statement of sales and/or royalties earned.  I was lucky to get even that, it seems.  As for what James and Timberyard might have made themselves on these records I have no way of knowing.⁹  When planning the now-aborted Victims "official" album I told James I had three requirements: 1) that Timberyard were NOT to be involved in any capacity because I didn't trust them after the dealings regarding the vinyl album, 2) David Cardwell had to give his consent to the project and would be paid any royalties due to him, and 3) that you, Ross Buncle, would finally get the credit, long overdue, for any of the songs you and James composed together, something which I thought James finally had come close to acknowledging.¹⁰  None of this will happen now.  I'm afraid James' involvement in all of this speaks for itself.  If James cared even a little bit about the rights (or wrongs) of anyone else most of these grievances would certainly never have arisen.

For what it's worth, I truly believe that, when The Victims were starting, had I suspected that I was performing songs even partially written by someone outside of the band I would probably have not wanted us to play them. One of The Victims hallmarks was always that we wanted to write our own songs and not be a "covers band" like all the other bands in Perth at that time (those that were outside of the punk scene, anyway).  Many of my favourite Victims songs were never recorded and I now regret that we never had the opportunity to commit those to vinyl for posterity instead of those four Geeks-related songs that are there instead.  In some ways, that would have been a shame (especially in the case of '(I'm) Flipped Out Over You') because those few songs you wrote with James would be completely unknown today.

You admit that you have never tried to contact me in all these years (nor contacted APRA, I presume) to set the record straight, as you see it.  I honestly haven't thought too much about any of this, other than to occasionally wonder how much of the music James actually wrote with you and/or by himself.  You say: very little.¹¹  From my own experience and the advantages of hindsight, I would now agree with you.  Whatever the reality may be of the creation of these songs, James' lyrics WERE often amusing and a few of the many songs that he and I wrote together I still rate highly.  Obviously, I'd love to hear the recording of The Geeks you mentioned, not only to shed some light on this ancient mystery (history?)¹² but also to hear some of his (and your) songs in their original form.  I will be contacting APRA as soon as possible to remove any claim by me to the songs '(I'm) Flipped Out Over You', 'High School Girls', T.V. Freak', and 'Disco Junkies' and any of those other five songs if they are in fact listed on their books.  I doubt there has been anything significant earned by these titles in publishing royalties anyway but I will happily pay you whatever I may have earned from them, if that can be determined.  Apart from that, it's up to you and James to once-and-for-all decide amongst yourselves what bits each of you wrote of your nine Geeks songs. Good luck!

Regards,

Dave Faulkner


P.S.  Ross, if you wish to publish this on your website my sole condition is that you print this letter in full, without deletions or additions.

Dave Faulkner emailed the above letter to me in response to an initial email approach from me to him, through his management, in which I explained that the Geeks songs were co-written by James Baker and I, outlined my reasoning as to why the copyright registrations should contain only James' and my names, and asked Dave to consider amending the registrations of songs for which I believed he was erroneously attributed writing credits.  As mentioned in The Geeks Story, he was good to his word as per his letter above, and prompt in following up through his publisher on all he undertook to do.  All the original Geeks songs are now registered with APRA as co-written by Baker/Buncle, as should have been the case from the outset.

Parts of Dave's letter, as signified by the footnote numbers within the text of his letter, do require responses or clarification here, which are as follows:

¹ I have no recollection of Dave Faulkner ever attending a Geeks rehearsal, and neither does Lloyd.  Dave Cardwell, however, has stated that he first met Faulkner at a Geeks rehearsal (see Dave Cardwell's Comments), and Rod Radalj also recalls Dave  attending a rehearsal.  Both Lloyd and I do clearly recall meeting Dave Faulkner for the first time at my parents' home in Floreat Park in 1977, this meeting also being attended by James Baker.  This meeting was arranged at James' prompting, purportedly with a view to having Dave Faulkner join the Geeks' lineup.  During this meeting, Dave listened to a tape we had made of a Geeks rehearsal.  This tape included most, if not all, the Geeks' original songs (although my recollection is that we did not listen to the whole tape). 

² James' description of our songwriting collaboration process as reported by Dave Faulkner here is, in fact, accurate enough, though not sufficiently detailed to give the full picture.  James would have some idea of the musical aspects of his songs when he brought his lyrics to me, which he would do his best to communicate by 'singing' (as mentioned in The Geeks Story, he struggled to hold a tune).  I would work off these ideas, but by the time the songs had been developed into their final forms, they had taken on new or modified riffs and melodies, the latter of which would sometimes undergo further refinement when Lloyd sang them.  On occasions, I introduced chord changes which would end up in the development of a bridge, and various other excursions from the basic song form James had conceived. 

³ I did not "create" the musical elements of the songs entirely, as may be inferred from Dave's wording here - as per footnote 2 above, I worked off James' initial ideas.  The songs were truly a collaborative effort between James and I, with Lloyd contributing some melodic refinements on some occasions.

⁴ My experience in songwriting with James is entirely in keeping with Dave's observation here, which I think is a point well made.

⁵ This assertion is certainly not correct (although I am sure it is Dave's genuine recollection) - see footnote 1 above.  Also, see James Baker's response to Dave's letter.

⁶ Dave's point is unclear to me here.  I'm not sure what he means by "my story or yours".  His story, as per his email above, is that he was unaware that anyone but James Baker was responsible for the creation of the Geeks songs played by The Victims. My story - which Dave indicates he accepts as truthful - is that all the Geeks original songs were co-written by James Baker and I (as per footnote 2 above).  I don't see that the two "stories" are incompatible with the facts, or that the credits on The Scientists' Pink album have any bearing on the matter.  I stated in my initial email to Dave that on The Scientists' Pink album the record includes my name in the credits for I'm Looking For You and Teenage Dreamer (which derives from the Geeks' song, I'm In London).   An added complication with the Scientists' versions of these songs is that Faulkner's and Salmon's names also appear in the credits along with mine and James Baker's.  I explained in a follow-up email to Dave Faulkner that I had not mentioned this initially simply because I did not wish to unduly complicate the issues I was seeking to have resolved, which were that writing credits had been incorrectly assigned to songs I had co-written with James Baker, and for which I had never been acknowledged.  Dave did not respond to my follow-up email.

⁷ I do not understand why Dave charges me with being disingenuous.  I addressed this issue in detail (as per footnote 6 above) in a follow-up email to Dave, but again, he did not respond.

⁸ Indeed, in a recent email to me, Kim Salmon does explain his inclusion in the writing credits for The Scientists' versions of the two Geeks songs in question in similar terms to those outlined by Dave Faulkner here.  Incidentally, as was the case with Faulkner, Salmon immediately agreed to have his name deleted from the writing credits for these songs, and promptly followed this up with APRA. 

⁹ James Baker was adamant when discussing the issue with me that he did not receive a cent in royalties, or any other payments, for the Timberyard Records release.  Needless to say, James' version of events regarding the Timberyard release differs markedly from Dave Faulkner's understanding as outlined in his email above.  It seems likely that there has been considerable miscommunication between the parties. 

¹⁰ James Baker does acknowledge my part in the creation of the Geeks songs, as he has recently expressed to me on a number of occasions, as well as his regret that the copyright issues were not cleared up long ago.  Neither James, nor Dave Cardwell, nor Dave Faulkner (based on his letter above) can agree on how the erroneous accreditations occurred in the first place.  My conclusion is that all parties are telling the truth as they recall it, and that this many years down the road it is not possible to fully establish the facts.  The matter is now satisfactorily resolved anyway, and I am very pleased to finally put it to rest.

¹¹ I did not say "very little" - my contention has always been as per footnote 2 above, which makes it clear, as did my initial letter to Dave Faulkner, that the songs were co-written by James and I, with contributions to some vocal lines by Lloyd.

¹² There is no longer any "mystery" - this site clarifies, I trust, once and for all, the manner in which the Geeks' songs were written.  All members of The Geeks agree that my claim for co-writing credits with James Baker is valid, and that my descriptions of the songwriting process for The Geeks' songs are factual and accurate.  Unfortunately, direct comparison between the Geeks originals and the later cover versions of the same songs by The Victims is no longer possible for most of the songs.  Of the Geeks songs still in existence in recorded form, only one - High School Girls - appears on The Victims' EP (or its re-released form, All Loud On The Western Front).  The other Geeks songs that still exist in recorded form (all of which are on the Geeks CD) were, in most cases, performed by The Victims, but not released in recorded form.   James Baker tells me he has sent some unreleased Victims tapes to Dave Faulkner with the view to a possible CD release, but has not received them back; thus, a direct listening comparison of more songs may be possible - this possibility now rests with Dave Faulkner and would appear to depend on whether he and James can settle their differences.   Here's hoping...a lot of people would love to hear any unreleased Victims material still in existence.

As pointed out in The Geeks Story and on the Home Page, and confirmed by a direct listening comparison, The Victims' version of High School Girls does vary from the Geeks' original, though far less so - to haul out an infamous example -  than The Chiffon's He's So Fine differs from George Harrison's My Sweet Lord (see this link for details of the court case).  The other Geeks songs on The Victims' EP - Disco Junkies, TV Freak and Flipped Out Over You - were recorded in rehearsal by The Geeks, but these original recorded versions have been lost to time and carelessness (nevertheless, all members of The Geeks share my recall that the Geeks' and Victims' versions of these three songs were virtually identical melodically and lyrically).   A Victims recording of I'm Looking For You does not exist as far as I am aware, but a listening comparison confirms that the post-Victims Scientists' version on the Pink album is almost identical to the original version on The Geeks CD.

If anyone reading through this site happens to have a tape of the missing Geeks songs through who knows what weird and wonderful happenstance, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE contact me.  Locating a tape - however rough - including The Geeks' rehearsal versions of Flipped Out Over You, Disco Junkies, TV Freak and I'm In London would provide the sole missing piece of the jigsaw and make The Geeks Story complete.  I know I made one complete cassette copy, at least, off the mastertape reel that I sold in about 1979 with the Teac 4-track tape recorder we used to record our rehearsals.  A single copy probably is still out there somewhere, so if by happy accident YOU have it, PLEASE email me.

Ross Buncle, October 2005